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Hello, everyone here in the room and everyone online. It's super exciting to be here for our international women's day event with the equality alliance.
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People from companies in Melbourne, ideal Telstra nab for all. 3 of those sounds super excited. medibank and Australia post.
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Before we get started,
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I did want to let everyone know that transcript and captions are available on not in the room,
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but in Webex,
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um,
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choose your own adventure on how to get Webex to do that for you because I can't give instructions right now and video recording and transcript will be available afterwards as well if you want to share it with more people or watch it all again.
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I want to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land from wherever we are in Australia, or in the world today pay. There is pay my respects to the elders past present and still to come recognize that. Today.
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I'm meeting on the lens of the orange people of a combination. So wherever you are today, take a moment to pay your respects as well.
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So, international women's day, I have a bit of a love hate relationship with international women's day.
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The hate part through Slack part is about how we have warranties and events, and we cupcakes and we take a little moment to recognize that there's a little bit of inequality. Maybe in the world, and there's some more work to be done.
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The thing I love about it is that we take that moment to recognize that and then we make a commitment to really carry it forward because it's that action that carries things forward. It is what changes culture.
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So today is all about break the bias. That's the, that's the theme for this year. So my ask of everyone online and in the room is to think about.
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What you hear today from our speakers and our panelists, what you hear today what are the things that you want to think about that you're going to make a commitment to to break the bias? Not just today.
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But every day, so that next year, when you come back to 1 of these events, you can say, yes, I was part of breaking the bias and changing the culture from wherever I am.
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So, today we're going to hear from a keynote speaker as well as.
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The ceo's executives, Jefferson from all 5 of the companies that are part of the equality alliance.
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But our 1st person to fake is Megan.
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So, I think it was, um, end of 2013 I started thinking about what I wanted to do to play a bigger game.
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In breaking the bias and making a difference for gender equality and the women I worked with in technology, and I had all these plans, I was touching all of these ideas, but I wanted it to be bigger. I wanted to create a movement. Not just do something small.
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I know in searching for who is someone that can help me, because I couldn't do it. I was just a person that worked in technology, but so I knew I couldn't do it alone. And so I went searching and the name that kept coming up with making Della. Camino.
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And so I stopped to ask all my friends if anyone you were and our founder and then I was at.
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Which is a swimming pool here in Melbourne was at 1 day and megan's business partner was this with her children. So I ranked her and.
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We all came together and we created some. We created some great things together at NAB back then and that program that Megan created at the same time, has grown and grown. And some of you might know now, is women rising.
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I don't know people from all about all of the organizations today that are here today are participating women's right women rising. So, let me introduce make them properly. Not just as someone that I stopped until she became my best friend.
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Megan ameena is a founder and CEO of women rising, uh, sort after expert on women's leadership. She supports companies, leaders and women around the world from the U. S. to China, Australia to the Middle East.
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The women rising signature program is supporting thousands of women from 200 companies in 25 countries, create breakthroughs for their career and leadership success and business and diversity outcomes. Prior to these Megan had a 2 decade, long executive career in companies, including and IBM.
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So, I'm going to hand over to Megan, and then I'll be back later with panel. Thanks.
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Thank you Dale, thank you so much I can't think of anyone I would rather be spinning international women's day than you, because you are right there at the beginning where it all started.
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Um,
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hi,
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everyone I am so honored to be with you all today for international,
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women's day,
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where we gather together and celebrate achievements of women and goals around the world and also look forward to how far we still have to go and I'm going to.
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To spend 10 minutes with you and share some thoughts around breaking the bias that we can all together hopefully step forward and create some positive change. So, the same.
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This year as, you know, it is break the bias, uh, on the next slide. Thanks thanks Christian and.
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This is about working towards a world where we are free of stereotypes will be free of bias and discrimination and creating a world that is really diverse and equitable and inclusive. But unfortunately.
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Even though we are here in 2022, we are still far from living in an equal and inclusive world and the data that's just been released.
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I'll share some of the of the big stats and then 1 of the most startling figures, but when we look around the world women laid only 14 out of 195 countries.
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Women are still pay 23% less globally than our mal counterparts.
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When we look to the Fortune 500, only 8.2% of those companies are run by women.
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And when we look to the entrepreneurial space.
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When we look at female founders, they receive less than 3% of all of the venture capital funding that is available.
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When we look at the landscape here in Australia, we can see that women are underrepresented in key decision, making roles in nearly all of the industries in Australia and workforce.
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And you can see that you can see the stats here.
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We make up half of the private sector workforces, women, and yet, only 32.5% of key management positions.
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28.1% of directors, 18.3 of CEOs and 14.6 of board chairs. We still have so much work to do and the global gender gap index, which has just been released.
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For 2022 tells us that at the right that we currently going, it's going to take us 136 years to get to agenda parody and I just want to put that number into context.
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Because this time, last year that number was 909 years, and the impact that we've seen from the global pandemic, full women in the workplace has led to that dramatic increase.
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And 1 of the quotes that came out of the report.
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At the current, right none of us will see agenda parity in our lifetimes, and no likely will many of our children. So again, we have what to do. This is why we have international women's day.
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We also know that 1 of the greatest factors in reaching gender parity is bias, and that we all have a role to play. You know, this isn't just 1 group's problem. This is for all of us to solution together.
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So, thank you um.
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We all have biases and just to level set this. Right? As I said, this is not 1 group's problem we all have biases. They are a mental shortcuts for how we make sense of the world.
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And a lot of the time for all of us, they are completely unconscious.
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But what we also know is that almost 3 in full women, experience, bias at work, and those that do a more likely to leave their jobs.
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And we have seen a mass exodus of women from the workforce in the last 2 years through the pandemic. So this is of grave concern to us all in business.
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I want to briefly go through and highlight for you,
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the 6 primary types of bias that women experience at work because I find in all of the work that I've done in women rising in 20 years,
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in corporate it's 1 thing to excite and acknowledge that bias exists or that,
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we have bias.
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But to look very specifically at what those 6 types of buys, uh, can really help us to better understand, but as importantly to be able to take real action.
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So, let's briefly walk through these and we start with performance bias.
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So, performance bias is based on these really deep rooted and incorrect assumptions.
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About women's and men's abilities, and the research shows us that we tend to underestimate women's performance and we overestimate men's and that men are promoted based on potential.
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But women are promoted based on performance, which makes it just that much harder.
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The 2nd, type of bias is attribution bias, and this is really closely linked to that performance bias because we collectively see women as less confident than men.
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We tend to give women less credit for accomplishments and they get more more blame for their mistakes.
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The 3rd type of bias is likability bias. Now this is a really big 1.
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I teach a lot about this in our work, um, rooted in age old expectations and genomes and think about this for yourself, you know, we expect men to be assertive.
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So, when men lead, it feels natural, it's expected.
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But we expect women to be kind and communal. This is what comes through in the research again and again. So when women assert themselves, we actually like them less.
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And that's this likability penalty that we hear about and research shows us that women can often be seen as competent, all likable.
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But rally boys, the next type of biases, maternal bias.
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Now, this is the most common form of bias that women experience at work and it comes from this, um, the mother would can trigger false assumptions that women are less committed to their careers and even less competent.
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And we would really, uh, we would really think that we have this bias or any of these biases.
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But what this maternal bias can do is it leaves mothers with this maternal wall of bias that can have a really profound impact on their career. And if you speak to a lot of women.
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They will tell you that this is a very real bias and the most common type of bias that women face it work.
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Affinity bias is exactly what it sounds like that we gravitate toward people like ourselves and appearance beliefs and background and not only that,
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but we may actually avoid or even dislike unconsciously people who are different from us.
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And then the last type of bias is double discrimination and intersectionality bias.
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So,
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bias,
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of course,
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isn't limited to agenda and we see women who have that intersection of gender with race,
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sexual orientation,
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a disability,
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or any other aspect of their identity can get into this double discrimination penalty that women can face.
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So they are the 6 types of bias that we can see that women can experience at work what do we do about this? Um, now we don't have 2 hours to go through all of the actions we can all take.
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But here are just a couple of things that I would invite you to think about, um, as we are focusing on international, women's day and beyond. So, the 1st is to take a take an approach of awareness. 1st.
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Reflection and then action, and we can do this by becoming aware of our own biases.
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And looking at those 6 times agenda bonus and unpacking that for ourselves.
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We want to celebrate women's achievements and amplify women's voices and I would encourage you to be looking at. Where can you do that? Where is the woman in your team? A peer group in your family your community that you can celebrate and amplify.
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From an organizational perspective, and I'm sure we'll hear this from our panel today. It's looking at how we insert processes, um, to wade out the bias.
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Um,
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systemically throughout our organizations are really good tip,
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is that if you're ever in doubt,
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whether there is a bias at play for you flip the script and think about if this was a man,
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or if this was somebody else of a different gender identification,
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would I be having.
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The same, um, response and is there a buy supply here?
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And probably, the most simple thing that we can all do is speak to the women that, you know, irrespective of your own agenda and ask them which of those 6 types of buyers have they experienced.
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Are they even conscious to the fact that they may have experienced that bias and listen to understand what that lived experience is and then how you, um, can act and help break the bias for yourself.
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And for everybody around, you.
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So, I hope that is helpful, a really short overview of, you know, breaking the bias.
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And some things that we can do it is on all of us as individuals and certainly as leaders and team members and our organizations to play a part in this for women. But for all of us.
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And right now we're going to introduce some change makers and allies who are doing this really well,
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inside of,
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um,
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all of our organizations and the gender quality committee has come together to create an opportunity to recognize and celebrate the change makers and allies in their respective organizations.
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So, the change makers, we're going to celebrate a thought leaders and they have the is.
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Could create innovative solutions to industry, gender, equality challenges they're identifying the need for change.
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And through their inspiring efforts, proactively and successfully make that change happen.
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And an ally, and our allies today who are receiving these awards is someone who is willing to act with and for others in the pursuit of creating gender equality in their industry.
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So I'm excited to go through these winners with you. Um, all of the winners today. Are going to have a place in the latest women rising program cohort, which kicks off today and joining 1500 people from 200 companies in 25 countries.
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So they will all be part of that with us.
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So, I'm honored to announce these winners and hopefully this will inspire you into action as well.
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So, let's start with and from for a change maker award, we congratulate Dana.
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Continually lifting the bar on graduate program Dana in shows female engineers are equally represented and actively sponsored.
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And for the ally award, we congratulate the Linda young and breaking the bias for women operations. Belinda, spearheaded wasted for a suspect campaign.
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And I know you'll be hearing more about our award winners after today Australia post.
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Helen good year is out change maker award and Helen role role models. Inclusivity.
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Insurance staff feel valued, respected and included. She's a role model for other women across network operations, taking an active role in mentoring and developing women at post.
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She volunteers countless hours to support various causes and is a key contributor across post. Pride. And project may. Congratulations, Helen.
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And Christian Jackson is the ally award winner Christian is a strong leader who promote some supports women into Sanya operational roles across the business.
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He has worked tirelessly to ensure his business is gender, balanced and driven women at post programs across New South Wales and Queensland.
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Mini bank, the Mini bank, we celebrate Natalie Perez with the change maker.
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Ward Natalie volunteers at the, she leads tech liaison for the Melbourne chapter, which aims to increase the representation of women in technology and help promote women into technology leadership roles.
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And our ally award winner is shadowing Carlson charmagne provides support to her team members, helping 1 team member, navigate last challenges. Congratulations to both of you.
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So, if we have.
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Joanna change maker award as Co chair for the last 5 years. Joanna was nominated for cultivating and inclusive environment and for being determined and strategic and pressing for leadership accountability.
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And Raj Johnson is our ally award winner Raj is a vocal supporter of gender quality.
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He was instrumental in supporting the in moving to online, only in hybrid events, enabling their rates to extend from audiences.
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In the Melbourne day to old nap colleagues.
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Congratulations to you. Boy Telstra.
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So, if it Telstra changemaker award goes to D, um, devia, let the agent at home business continuity program that rapidly scaled.
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To enable thousands of contact center agents to work from home when the pandemic hit provided a safe and secure way for our teams to connect keeping the health and well,
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being as the central goal and she worked together with a diverse team to deliver this massive program agent at a time effectively created a new benchmark,
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the flexible working driving inclusivity,
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higher engagement and improved customer experience.
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And our ally award winner goes to George tile.
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George create space for women to be heard and supported in a very male dominated area of Telstra business. And George makes sure that everyone's voice is heard and respected.
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Congratulations to all of our winners, as I said, I know you'll be hearing more about the great and important what they are all doing inside of your organizations and.
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I will just leave you in hand back to Dale, you know, we all have this role to play to break the bias.
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And, uh, um, they're right alongside with you and so glad that we're all having this opportunity to gather today and now over to dial and our esteemed panel members.
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Again.
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Thank you, Megan and congratulations to all of those winners. I wanted to invite up to the stage and to turn on the cameras for the people that are joining us online.
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We have Alex panandok from Telstra Christine callback from David Casa from Citibank program for Australia post.
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And Philip, chronic and from now, I can't believe I had to read those out. Everyone. Everyone is so just before we get started, I wanted to know, I remember last year at this event when we were going through all of the different, the leaders from the organizations.
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And it was all on screen last year and there was a moment I was like, well, they all look the same time. They I wanted to just take a moment and point out. We haven't had all of the different pillars of diversity today in our panel.
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And in our speakers, but I do know, every organization that's represented today has great employee resource groups and is doing a lot of work in every different element of diversity. Today's all about gender diversity, though. So let's get going.
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Uh, Bill and everyone's ready to go. I have to put glasses on because I belong to these days. So breaking the bias.
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1st question, we're going to ask David 1st, and then Alex to get ready breaking the bias needs to change both individual and a systemic level. So let's start with systemic.
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What are you most proud of and what's happening in your organization in breaking the bias for women?
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Well, he can maybe bank there's lots to be proud of. Um, and.
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Uh, you know, I agree that systemic is important, but I think the individuals where it really matters, but let's just deal with the question. 1st. Um, you know, we've really focused on 2 things. Um, 1st is setting.
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Measurable targets that are public, um.
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That's our commitment and that drives change in the organization and.
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Yeah, we've got, uh, targets, uh, at 40, 40 target. I mean, blazingly. We've got more than 40%.
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Of our board women and 51%.
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Of our senior executives agreement, strong pipeline and female talent.
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But there are some hotspots there that aren't quite gender balance. In fact, we've got.
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Uh, probably and under a representation of me, you know, nursing area. So, you know, it's not all about.
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The, uh, the overall targets, you know, we've got a commitment to have less than 1%.
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Piling up and pleasantly last year we had 0% target.
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And we do that through implementing really, you know, leading policies, whether it be a parental leave policy.
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Uh, we introduced several years ago, uh, unpacked and kept paid for domestic violence victims.
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And, you know, we're continually listening and learning to our people about what's next, um, our cara's policy. We know.
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Uh, our care is, um, who are caring for people other than their kids. Um, they don't have a great experience, necessarily like other people. So there's more work to be done here. But but certainly, that's where we focused on.
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I think what we've also learned is you can have great measures and you can have policies, but actually it's a cultural change. Uh, that makes a difference. And, um, otherwise it's not bits of paper.
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Uh, you know, stuck in someone's, um, someone's folder. I think it's not supposed to be recognized. Um, and even last week, uh, we were recognizes the 11th.
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Best in the world, in terms of, um, gender equity benchmark by equity. So lots to be proud of. But probably my single, biggest, uh, sense of pride from MB bank is way wide.
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Uh, there's still lots to learn it still has to get better at. And, um, and even though we, you know, at some level, things are, uh, we're very proud of the environment we have. We know we can do better.
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Right and Alex, what systemic changes are you proud of? It?
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Yeah, there are 2 things. I mean, there's so many things you can put on this list, but there are a couple of things that really stand out to me, because I think they represent things that are not only fundamental change for our company.
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But they're also about fundamentally changing the broader community that we operate in. Because I think all of us now, our workplaces are just 1 part of how all of us live operate and what we experience.
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So, there's the 2 things are around, getting rid of once and for all the sort of primary and secondary care and notion in parental leave, it constantly reinforces the roles. The stereotypical roles the biases.
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Uh, about the role women play versus men, or whichever sort of partnership or arrangement you have actually, parenting is often a shared responsibility. Sometimes it's between 2 people often.
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It's between extended family between a community. And I think it's.
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Long overdue to challenge that perspective as someone I think,
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who feels that Tom's deeply judged for being a bad parent because apparently I was supposed to be at home and my husband was judged as being to be honest,
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a bad man,
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because he was at time.
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So neither of us was living up to the stereotype that people perceive that we should should be. And I love the fact that last year at Telstra over 50% of the people taking parental leave women.
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And I think that's a fundamental shift. We have to create not only at Telstra, but in our communities more broadly, that actually lots of people can be careful, and they don't become come in a particular siple size or package.
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So, that's why I think 1 of the other things is a really important discussion and economic discussion for women women for a long time. Have.
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Towards the back end of life ended up in far more dire straits economically and that's partly because we often don't either don't work in paid work.
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Or if we do work in paid work, we don't accumulate the savings.
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And the Super I knew, I should that we need to be for our future. So, 1 of the other things that we've done is introduce Superannuation contributions while people aren't unpaid.
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Parental leave, because while I'm very proud of the fact that 50 of it closer to 60% of people on parental leave in Telstra last year were men.
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91% of people who take unpaid.
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Parental leave are still women and that meant for a long time. They weren't accumulating the long term overtime and and security.
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That they needed too so I think both of those are things that are important in Telstra.
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But actually an important and biggest sort of social.
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Discussion as well. Right.
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So, are you ready to get personal? Absolutely. And Philip, so when let's talk about your personal, um, how do you reflect on, you know, a bit self awareness of when you're maybe displaying some biases.
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And what do you do about it for me I think it starts with having perspective and and.
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Daring into it and I think in terms of perspectives.
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I'm very aware everyone's had their own challenges, but you don't know what happens behind closed doors. You don't know what life experiences people have had that had created and formed their opinions.
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Their experiences what appears on a CV. So, for me, the most important thing in challenging.
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Is to get perspective and you get perspective by not putting yourself in someone's shoes because you can't you haven't walked their path,
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but it's by being open to listening to it and seeking out those perspectives and actually keeping an open mind and going.
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How do you then incorporate that moving forward?
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I am very proud to be the executive sponsor about shine community and I'm not a member of the community, but.
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Every time I meet with our shine community, every event I attend, I learn something new and I understand a little bit more.
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About the experience that people have every day, and I can't ever seek to understand it.
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But I can stick to improve it, so I think it's being deliberate and having perspective.
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Great and so clinical from.
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We still have them on the line. Yes. Hello? All right. So how do you identify your personal biases? And what do you do to challenge yourself.
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So, we had a really interesting experience in the last year. We were working with a firm. Um, and this was actually on the context of development of a bunch of senior executives, uh, for future promotion.
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And the firm actually got us to sit down and articulate what our biases were. So not gender, specific biases but just what, what instincts? I think what was referred mental shortcuts.
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Because a bias is simply an instinctive response. And it's usually built up by years of experience. Unless you call it out and name it, you can't be aware when it's affecting yourself.
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And I found that process quite sobering because I looked at the people that we were looking at in this context. And I was actually able to say, I've known this person for so long.
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I'm not sure whether that's helpful or not helpful because I had higher expectations of them, for example, or somebody who I didn't know. Well, but, you know, bought the image and.
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I thought it was a really useful process to be forced by the consultants to sit down and articulate those biases.
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And I think if we can get into the habit of doing that, then, you know, we can absolutely attack the biases that get in the way of equality of treatment of women in the workplace. So, I, um.
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So, you know, like, other organizations, we've set the targets for 40% representation at all levels. But the important things are the interventions you then put in place to drill into why we're not getting true quality of opportunity.
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So reviewing appointment processes, reviewing remuneration processes, to see if you've got a fair remuneration process, how could it possibly result in unfair outcomes and then checking whether your performance appraisal processes genuine or not?
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Because again, it's highly unlikely that a fair process is going to lead to uneven outcomes. So, I think in an organization that's large with lots of people you have to have the strategy. You have to have the policies that supported but you've got to be very deliberate.
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And having the interventions that track, when you're getting off of the off that path.
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Right and I think that's a good tip from what everyone said for everyone that having biases. Everyone has biases. When you're 1st aware of them, you just start to feel guilty about it.
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What a terrible person you are, but it's not that it's the action you take next and what you do to address them. That's a really important part. So Paul Graham, you're still there. I am interested in.
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We know that what you walked past is important as the action that you take yourself. So I'm interested in when you see bias playing out around you with your peers or friends, even what kind of action do you take.
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Thank you. Yeah, look, you've got a call, but I think we have to do is continue to change the environment. We're all shooting.
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Yep. Can you hear me? Yes. Hello? Hello.
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Yep, sorry apologies for that. Uh, yeah, look, we're, we're all shaped by the environments that we grew up in. And what we have to do is change the environment.
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So, as you say, if we're operating in an environment, or we see a situation, would that be in a meeting, whether it be around the coffee shop or whatever? It may be uh, you know, we've got to call that out.
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And I think, you know, some people feel uncomfortable doing that, but we simply have to do it. Otherwise we're not gonna create that change. And I guess particularly as leaders and organizations, you know, we have a responsibility.
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And when someone mentioned, you know, sort of have it on the poster campaign, we've got to live and breathe. And, you know, I've seen situations in my career, particularly in what has been a increasingly male dominated sort of logistics or transport industry.
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And those environments are just simply not acceptable anymore. Uh, you know, they've never been acceptable, but we need to just call it out and really help people. Understand why it's not acceptable.
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And that, uh, you know, they may have a view. That has built on their environment. But we simply have to change the way that people approach these biases and call that out.
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Uh, we had a situation on a transport, you know, elderly, elderly, but older males like myself.
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Uh, we've now got a, you know, about 25% of that, uh, facilities now, got, you know, uh, female leaders in it. Uh, and it's changed the complete nature of that environment.
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You know, 1000% for the positive, and the men, you know, who are very set in their ways of come round. They recognize that we've got a far better place to work a far safer place to work and something that's far more enjoyable for all stakeholders.
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So, in simple response, call it out.
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Thank you and Alex, when you see bias happening around you, what do you do? Well, I think there's 2 things. The 1st is, as Paul just said, I do think you actually have to call it out because if you.
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Walk pass it, or if you let it be used by default endorsed, but in calling it out, I think the place to start from his curiosity.
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So, for me, you can call it out or something negative. But the point you raised before, is that we all.
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Have biases, and it's important on international women's day to recognize that women have as many biases as, as men we socialize in the same way. Our brains actually do the same thing.
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So, and so, for me what I find.
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Is useful is asking questions. So why did you do that? Where did it come from? What was the intent.
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And exploring it, because exploring it is far more likely to actually have the person to start to reflect.
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On the behavior, rather than put up the defenses, because most of us actually feel pretty challenged or embarrassed. I think you just talked about that before as well.
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Dial and we, we all make mistakes ours on a call the other day. And 1 of the things that we're trying to do is promote inclusive language.
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To and be far more conscious of the words that have actually enter their language that have become very normalized. That are not okay.
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And I have a habit, and I discovered it the other day when someone called me on it, and it's sort of still processing it and working out. Is it good or bad? And where does it come from? I often will say, thanks guys.
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And someone said to me, well, that's actually not okay, because you've actually put agenda label on that conversation. It's not how I think of the term.
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It's not how I intended it, but that's a conversation with having because someone received it differently.
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I heard it, you know, why that I didn't intend to it but instead of telling me off.
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Asked the question, where did it come from? Why did I do it? And I'm conscious of it and now I'm conscious of it so be curious.
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Curious nice. Sorry changing Texas a little bit to David. And Paul, I think you've both been in the senior roles uh, basically your roles anyway, for less than 12 months.
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So, as an incoming CEO, when you CEO and an organization, how do you look at gender equality and.
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Um, yeah, how do you step into that as, if you see, I'll start in the room with David.
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Yeah, it's a really important question I think, when you.
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You take on a leadership role, whatever it is, but certainly see a role.
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Um, yeah, it's a great opportunity to lay the company.
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Citibank to deliver our purpose, and we get very focused on our customers and the community.
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So, that's how you start, but but as a leader, uh, and to see, uh, you know, there's an obligation actually to.
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Think about the environment you're creating for almost 4,000 people and that actually.
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You know, taxonomy draws me even more.
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Um, and as I said, coming into the role, you know, things at some level of going pretty well, in terms of gender equality, but.
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You know, when you have to scratch the surface and understand there are very big opportunities to improve. Um, you know, 1 thing that we wanted to do was set a very clear 2030 vision. You know, what should.
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You know, at the end of the decade, and whilst there were some external metrics around our customers, you know, 1 of the things we aspire to be.
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Was the healthiest workplace and destroy their competition here for event that right. Um, but, yeah, just sign that statement, um, is important and to, you can't get there.
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Unless everyone feels like they can pay themselves have equal opportunity, have equal chance of success.
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Prosperity and ability to fill their own personal potential.
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So, I think coming in, you know, that's that's the motivation. Um, personally, and it's terribly exciting and daunting.
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Um, you know, I've spent my time, uh, on some external forums, and particularly the coalition change, which I think is a really important body that really challenges some norms.
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Society internally done a lot of listening. Quite curious again. Um, what are the.
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Uh, areas of our business, who, who are the people that are having great experiences and learning from those and.
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Yeah, people that aren't particularly.
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Speaking to women, uh, in our talent program, a particularly.
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Those have returned from parental leave. Um, and so that really is a immersion for me, is to understand, you know, how I can help.
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For the next stage, personally, very passionate about flexible working and I think.
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You know, the code pandemic has been extremely challenging. We're in the next phase, I wouldn't say it's over, but within the next phase, and as we all have offices, opening up around the country.
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Ah, there's a once a generation opportunity to really.
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In and retain some of the great things we've all experienced and not revert back to the old. And, you know, unfortunately, we have seen the agenda boss, um, till.
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Uh, even further and go backwards during the pandemic.
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Yeah, and take care responsibilities going backwards.
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And honestly, inequity, uh, you know, still not paying where it needs to be. So.
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For us, flexible working, you know, this is not flexible.
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But on the on a Monday or Tuesday, this is flexibility. You're an at all.
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Families come in different shapes and sizes. You are a contributor, your.
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What does that mean for you and actually making a choice based? I'm very passionate about that.
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But, as I said, before, I think 1 of the things I can personally do more and more is storytelling and role modeling and giving voice to.
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People that are actually passionate about change. Um, we knew we had a problem. We, we launched our parental.
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A life policy, you know, we removed primary secondary care.
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We provided, you know, 40 weeks.
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Um, for everyone, but when 1 of our senior male executives came up to our head of people and culture and said, uh, you know, that's a good policy. But.
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I take the leave is my career. I.
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You know, we knew we had a problem and so, you know, we've really invested in storytelling personally, creating an environment where it becomes normal. And now 1 of my team I said, is the child just taking 2 weeks off.
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He's going to be taking 6 weeks off. So his wife and get back to work in the middle of the year, and we'll celebrate that and we've now seen.
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The sheer of I've been taking parental leave out by 10 fault so.
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Yeah, there's lots to be done, but I'm very passionate about listening learning, being curious and then, you know, really.
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Helping that cultural change aspect, which is really going to be important.
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And Paul and Australia post.
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Yeah, it looked like David, I mean, spent a lot of time out in the business as much as I can with Kobe and really listening. We've got a very diverse business. We're in 4,300 places around Australia. So we tend to reflect the Australian community in every aspect.
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We've also got, you know, sort of 2 core businesses, our frontline, operational business people and post offices out there delivering mail and parcels who unfortunately can't work that flexibly and obviously, then, our support team who can work flexibly.
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So, it's looking at how we get that balance right? We've also got huge ethnic diversity. And I think 1 of the things that's really continue to strike me is that.
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You know, breaking the bias and, uh, the way that the cultural backgrounds of of people help shape that bias and how can we continue to educate and storytellers.
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David says around the fact that that is not acceptable in today's modern society. I think that's a huge opportunity.
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For us, and not just cultural bias, or, uh, you know, background, uh, ethnic bars but also the way women also feel in those environments, because they may come from an environment where they are not encouraged to speak out or have a voice.
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So we're really trying to make sure that as we build women in our operational areas,
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with traditionally be male oriented,
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we're actually trying to identify women who come from ethnic backgrounds that wouldn't normally speak out or feel comfortable in that leadership environment.
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Because it's unbelievable talent, unbelievable skills and unbelievable ideas that we need to naresh and really encourage.
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And I think the other thing is around the point that was made about bias women for example,
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you've got a disability or some other,
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uh,
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you know,
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uh,
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feature,
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will it be ethnic background that the bias towards them is even greater.
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So, doubling down on our people with disabilities, 5.4% of our team, are people with a disability 1 of us in Australia, which are incredibly proud of. Likewise but a very large representation.
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So making sure that those people, uh, you know, people will it be male or female, but I'm not just comfortable being bringing them true selves to work, but actually know that we want to nurture and develop their careers.
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And the David's point is leading, by example, I'm very proud that my new management team is 50, 50 and again done on skill sets. Uh, but we've got a lot of work to do, I think, to continue to break the boss.
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But it is getting back to those, uh, you know, every day leadership at all levels, particularly in our front line levels, and making sure that women.
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Feel as comfortable as men and putting their hand up for these leadership roles and I think particularly in some of our traditional frontline, operational environments. That hasn't been the case.
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But I think post has got a terrific, uh, basic programs. But again, it is just investing more and having both myself and the whole leadership team, you know, living and breathing that type of culture every single day.
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Great Christine CEO elect, you're building a brand new company with 200 years of history already. So.
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How do you keep gender equality in focus while you're doing all of that? Yeah, I think the 1st thing it has to be actions speak louder than words. So, although we haven't quite emerged yet. It's where we're hitting the, uh, the ground running.
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We will have a female chair. We will have a female CEO so I think that's very 2 tangible sign posts for our employee base and for our potential employee base into the future.
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When we have looked at setting up a new executive team, there's 57% female on our new executive team. We've got 46% in the overall company. So deliberate scientists.
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Deliberate action is,
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I think,
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where it starts,
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but although we're going to be a new company,
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we want to pull through the things that are great and a couple of things that we're really proud of 1st,
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and foremost,
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it's individuals leaning in and getting involved and,
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you saw the Linda get recognized before when Megan called out for the we stand for respect campaign we took it further and it wasn't just our CEO standing up for and against gender violence.
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It was an individual.
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Involving people at the grassroots to say, what does respect mean for them. So I want to pull forward sort of individuals and recognizing and showcasing and putting the light on their opinions and their voices.
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And what else we can do. I think that's really important.
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We are very proud of we were certified last year to be a family inclusive environment and in terms of having a family inclusive workplace and that's something that we actually want to hold dear and make sure and
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learn from other organizations.
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We think we've done.
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Made progress and have made some really significant steps.
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But then you hear something else that someone else has done and it causes you to question.
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Should we do this? Why can't we do that rather than? No, you can't. So, I think that's the 2nd thing and then the 3rd thing at the end of the day.
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It actually does come down to economics and I think, you know, when you look at the stats that Meg and Chad.
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Economic prosperity is at the house, and, you know, the processes we have a process now, where twice a year we do look at, like, for, like, roles. We're very proud that we have 0, in terms of gender pay gap.
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But it is something we constantly need to keep an eye on, because it can get out of whack pretty quickly. It can get out of whack by bringing in an external person who has experience compared to promoting an internal person.
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And it's very just and very viable to say well, there is a gap because 1 person has more experience. But at what point do you guy.
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Or the internal personnel's got enough experience, and we need to address that because they're doing a light for, like, role. So there's some of the things, I think to be deliberate to take action and to have.
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Very serious scientists for people.
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And Philip chronic and the role of the board, and the chair of the board in gender equality, not just at the board level, but down through the organization, I'm interested in how that works at.
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So, look, the role of the board obviously, is to provide that oversight, um, to ensure.
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That the outcomes we gather the outcomes that we intended and, um.
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You know, I mentioned earlier that you actually have to have intervention. So if we think about the way we would have controls built around our operations, our financial planning controls safety or fraud controls all those sorts of things.
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If you've got a strategy to have a a respectful workplace that gives equal opportunity to everybody who works in it, what are the controls to making? What is the control that enables you to make sure that actually happens?
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And so, I think Christine might have been just talking about controlling to ensure that you get like, flag, pay that to control process. When we do reviews, are we reviewing people fairly and getting equal outcomes?
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Because in a large workforce, it's highly unlikely that 1 particular group is going to be outperforming another and you can look at that across our dimensions. So, I think the role of the board is to.
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You know, certainly to endorse the policies and set the directions, but it's derelict. If you board is not been putting in place measures.
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Control mechanisms to ensure that these policies that we have adopt actually result in the outcomes that we decide.
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And, you know, we've 1 of the issues that I've been very concerned about is that we can ensure that, like, for, like, people are paid for the same work.
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But that is very different from getting an overall equal pay outcome. And in an organization, like, in financial services, certain roles have traditionally been very well paid more so than others.
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And if you have a representation bias, more men in the highly paid workforces than you're not going to get.
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And even overall outcome, so you've gotta look each business has got to look into its own.
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A set of issues as to where, where they ever outcomes are going to come from and build control mechanisms to make sure that those can be addressed so that the board can sit back in 235 years and ensure that we actually got the outcome. We intended.
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Right. I'm going to see if there's any questions from the audience in the room and I'm not entirely sure how we take questions from people online, but there's a microphone in the room. If anyone's got any.
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Questions in the room surprise to everyone in room.
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Well, you think about your question, I'm going to 1 last question for me for everyone is what's your, what's your 1 commitment to breaking the buyer? So you're 1 tip for everyone in the room or online about breaking the bias. So, Philip.
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Oh, you're on the screen look for me, it's about any time you're involved in a decision that's likely to have an impact get a 2nd opinion from somebody who's different.
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Because by definition, you won't see your own bosses so you go ask somebody who's different.
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What's what's wrong with this process? How can we make it better? Right?
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Any question.
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Now, David, what's your 1 commitment or your 1 tip for? Everyone?
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Get passionate, it's got to change.
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And everyone can be a later in the change. Thank you.
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I have a question Joe. Hello? Hi, Dale. I have a question and anyone can take take the, um, question.
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About 810 years ago we were all doing, um, unconscious bias training.
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And, um, putting people through a tip within some organizations, probably a bit of a cheap approach. Um, and, um, I'm wondering these days. What do you think works best have you seen anything?
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Because that seems a bit passe. Now, people don't really get excited about it.
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I'm just wondering if anybody's seen anything or done anything that has made a difference to educating and calling out that, um, bias and helping people at scale to think about.
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I'm going to start Joe, so I think the thing that I have seen the best.
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Is when people are vulnerable and share their stories.
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And rather than it be the sheep training about the tips, and the do's and don'ts the watch out for us.
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It is hearing someone story of how they felt.
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What was the circumstance and how then individually we can do better. So, I think the best thing is to seek out stories.
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Promote storytelling, celebrate storytelling and then actually encourage them more people to come forward to do.
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Make it personal? Yeah, I've got an example of that. That you don't mind um.
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You know, as I said, we've got a very strong male oriented, operational business, and we had 1 particular site that, uh, we had a growing number of women joining, which was terrific.
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Uh, but it was fair to say that there were old habits and old attitudes that we're providing.
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So, we had 2 male individuals who were the, the main offenders we sat down with them and walk through what they were doing.
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And we had them sit 11 to 1 with 1, female, particularly who was, uh, I guess, impacted by it.
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And then what we had is,
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uh,
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the 2 main actually stand up in front of 147 people in their demo and talk about how they didn't recognize the impact of what they thought were,
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you know,
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Charlie's jovial jokes was having both on that individual woman and on the rest of the women in that facility,
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and it was a very honest,
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uh,
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you know,
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discourse by them.
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Um, they've had a reflected they looked at their bias. They looked at the environment that they've worked in for many years, the environment, which they were brought up to a large degree as men.
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And I think that impacted those 160 people in that facility left with a, with a very impactful approach.
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And it gets back to that storytelling and that honesty and the bravery, both of the woman who put our hand up and said this is not acceptable. And to a lesser degree, cause, you know, the man weren't brave and what they said far from it.
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But they recognized the error of their ways and within willing to stand up in front of their peers and discuss how they understood device and what they were then going to do to make sure that that work environment was free of bias.
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Thank you, um, why don't we stay with you and you give us your last tip your, your commitment or your tip to everyone about breaking the bias.
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Leave the front, uh, call it out. Uh, listen carefully and drive change.
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Thank you.
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Christine cobit, you will keep your commitment or your team. So I have 1 tip with 5 parts. So it's called the 5.
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So the 1st C is capability.
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Look beyond the look what goes beneath it, it's not just the skills and the work experience. It's the backstory.
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So look at the whole person, in terms of capabilities. The 1st thing.
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The 2nd, and Alex said before, it's it's to be curious. Continually ask why.
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Which leads to my 3rd, which is character.
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We, we manage, we react we get defensive.
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We should assume good intent, you know, 959899% of people have good intent.
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But there is biased there and you need to call it out. So so my 3rd is character.
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My 4th and it's probably my most important.
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Is confidence and it is actually.
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Having confidence in yourself to call it out, but it's the greatest gift. You can give someone else.
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Is the gift of competence it sets them up for life.
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So, confidence is the 4th, 1 and my last coming from a big extrovert that I am is communication.
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It is having these forums, it's having these sessions, it's actually educating people. It's communicating that.
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People then feel safe to tell their story to call out when they're uncomfortable, because it normalizes it. So, communication. So my 1 tip is followed the 5 c's 56. Thank you. And Alex.
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So, for me, it's about doing all of the work, not some of the work and it goes a bit Joe to your question before I think a lot of people rolled out sort of unconscious bias training. Like, here we go.
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These are kind of here and we'll all get that in. Suddenly the world will change and it didn't change.
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Well, we saw the stats as we started today and sadly, the world has changed a lot less than I would have liked it to. So, doing all of the work means that you actually have to do everything, whether it's about policy or systemic.
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Change and actually hardwiring that into the organizations that we all live in,
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we need to create the right culture and environment for me,
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calling it out or actually not walking past things comes when you have a culture where there is a psychological safety in the comfort.
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But that's okay, Nothing's bad's going to happen when you do it. So it.
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It isn't just about addressing diversity. It's actually what's your broader cultural environment like, and is that a healthy? I love being a healthy organization is a really good thing to be in having the right culture.
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And then 3rd, for me is data satisfied.
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Um, and we have a long way to God.
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And I think it's just fine to recognize the progress being made, but not somehow sort of say well, that's okay. Isn't that wonderful? Progress has been made. Not enough progress has been made. So status satisfied, agitate and be change makers.
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Thank you thanks to all of our speakers today. Thank you to everyone that has joined in the room and online.
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I hope everyone's got some tips and they've, they're going to walk away thinking about where they notice their own biases all those around them. And they've got some ideas about how they're going to challenge them.
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Thank you to everyone that was involved from the quality alliance across the 5 different companies.
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From when this was, I remember when this was just an idea 2 years ago.
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So the idea to have awards today to saying, these things happen in these 5 companies coming together is awesome. Everyone that's involved should be really proud of that. Congratulations. To all the award winners and stay dissatisfied. Thank you very much.
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Okay.
